Anybody out there with an opinion that is based on having actually used the ROM machine? Read GuardiansOfTheStatusQuo com to understand why experts are 98% of the time right with their opinions. That leaves of course the 2% when they are not right. 90% of the time experts are consulting on things they actually have knowledge about and 10% of the time they are expressing their opinions about things they know nothing about, mainly new ideas.

New ideas must necessarily be different from what experts believe in because, logically, if they were not different they would not be new. Everything that is different from what expert believe in will swiftly be dismissed as nonsense by experts (nonsense meaning that they make no sense to them). Of all new ideas 80% are most likely useless and 20% are from good to brilliant. These 20% have to endure the relentless pummeling by experts. Not a bad lot these experts.

They mean well and they do a useful service to society by also pummeling the other 80% of new ideas that are actually bad and in so doing they protect the public from all those bad ideas. The 20% then just have to suffer the expert abuse and those that survive it most likely are brilliant ideas that prevail and will slowly convert the experts one by one. The ROM has endured this strange expert elimination process since 1990 and is gaining expert converts one at a time by them actually using the ROM and after that starting to question their firmly held but incorrect beliefs. That is the slow process that drives change in matters of expertise over sometimes many years.

As long as there are experts in any branch of knowledge, the truth has not as yet been established. As soon as the final truth has been established about anything, experts disappear, not needed anymore, because things that everybody believes in do no longer have need of experts. Who questions round Earth any longer or that the sun is at the center of our solar system? Plenty of experts about these matters in times past.

We are posting all expert opinions we can find on our website no mattter whether they are positive or negative. Yours is posted already. I appreciate experts more than you might think. See why by reading the "Guardians" website. Experts give me a hard time with another idea I have created because it also drastically differs with their current beliefs Real Tax Reform

Respectfully, Alf Temme, ROM Manufacturer

Alf, I appreciate you taking the time to post back about the ROM and admire your conviction about your product. I know you're not alone in your views about the machine but based upon my observations I'm standing firm on what I wrote. Will the ROM exercise machine give you a good workout? Yes, I'm sure it will but there is no evidence to support the claims on your website that it's the perfect exercise. There is no perfect exercise, it depends on what your goals are, how much time you're willing to commit and your physical limitations. On a side note, your tax reform website looks interesting. I've read just started reading it and agree with you that we need a radical overhaul of the tex system that makes sense (and the healthcare system but that's another story).

Hi Bret,

I appreciate the objectivity of your review, but you'd be on more solid ground if you actually used the ROM machine.

Without actually using the machine, your review is a lot like analyzing how good a cake might taste from reading the recipe. Your analysis could be objective, interesting, and insightful, even. But how could it be accurate (or fun) until you actually ate the cake?

So, here's the fun part:

1 - Find a ROM Machine to test.

2 - Get on the machine and ride it for a month or two, at least 10 sessions anyway.

3 - Get all the training value you can get out of it and then update your review.

Extra Credit - Bring along someone who really could use regular exercise. You might consider someone way out of shape: obese, diabetic, very old or some other hard to exercise condition. Have them do this test with you!

I hope you experience incredible benefits and wish you well.

Regards,

Peter Kropf, a user

Peter, I think it's great that you find the ROM to be a good value and feel that it's worth the money, but I stand by my review of the ROM Exercise machine 1000%… And yes, as you stated in your response my review is "objective, interesting, and insightful" as I hope you'll find all the reviews here on my blog and website.

I stated in my review that I didn't test the machine in person and gave my review based on analytical observation directly from the ROM website and their claims. You state, "your review is a lot like analyzing how good a cake might taste from reading the recipe" which sounds like a solid arguement in theory, but I don't need to test drive a Porsche 911 to know it will blow the doors off a Toyota Camry in a street race - the facts speak for themselves.

Bret,

I'm 60, asthmatic and very sedentary (I could not muster the discipline or excitement for traditional excercise.).

I've visited my ROM gym about 40 times in the past 5 months. Half the time I do two 4 min workouts which is really exhilarating! Doing the math, I've gotten my heart rate up passed 160 about 240 times during those visits. (Total exercise time has been 4 hours.)

Here are my results:

1 - Friends and family come and ask what I've been doing w/ myself.

2 - Measured by the machine's settings, I am handling a challenge which is double where I started.

3 - Stairs are much easier to run up.

4 - I'm rapidly getting into shape and improving noticeably week by week.

5 - And, it seems everyone in the gym is getting results including a few well conditioned athletes and some old timers, way older than me, dealing with diabetes!

Like you say, "The facts speak for themselves."

So, I say, it seems to work for me and quite a few people I meet at the gym.

What's not to like?

Regards, Peter

PS - It'd still be neat if you could find one of these things and get some riding time!

I'm considering getting one of these. In the last 10 years I've slowed down, got fat and lazy, picked up some comitments that make finding 45-60 mins gym time pretty hard.
I've noticed reviews on the web for the ROM are either gushing and positive (from users or possibly plants - I'm cynical) and very negative from skeptics… but very, very few facts that are independent.
I'd love to see your opinion if you went to SoCal and had a couple of sessions on one of these things… if they really believe I'm sure they'd make it possible (or find one closer to home for you)

I agree with Mr Kropf If you cannot be bothered using the machine what is the point or value of the assessment.What is the point of reading a film review if the writer has not seen the film

I think I opened Pandoras Box on the ROM Machine Review… and I'm starting to wonder, as OffBeatMammal eluded to, as to whether some of the responses in this thread are from plants or employees of ROM???

Again, I stand by my review of the ROM as I've recapped above, and now for the third time…

The only nagging question I have is why people are so passionate about a $15,000 dollar machine that doesn't provide a better workout than equipment you can get for 1/8 the price?

If you believe in the ROM, and have the money to burn by all means go out and buy one! It's become obvious to me this discussion is leading to a stalemate with neither side willing to budge on their opinion.

[thinking out loud] I wonder why the only place I've ever seen the ROM Exercise Machine advertised is in those airline magazines??…

I am not a ROM fan, nor have I ever used one. I'm 24 and I doubt I could afford one until I'm 50 unless I take out a ridiculous amount of student loans! I was looking online for reviews from people who had actually used the rom. As a consumer, your review is completely useless to me. I do not find it informative, or interesting. I don't plan to buy a Rom in the near future, and the price seems astronomical to me, however, your review means nothing because you haven't tested the machine. Enough said.

A friend of mine called me up about a month ago to tell me he was planning a 4 wheeling trip - he and some friends decided to challenge the infamous Rubicon trail outside of Georgetown, California.

During our conversation he told me he was going to buy a new vehicle specifically for the occasion and wondered what I thought would be a better vehicle for the job - a Jeep Wrangler or a Lexus RX350?

I was afraid to answer his question because I didn't want to give him bad advice. So I decided to do some research on the trucks in question and told him I'd get back to him with an answer.

Although I've owned a Jeep in the past, and knew of its' ability to tackle rough terrain, steep grades, and waist deep water I had never driven a Lexus RX350 but told him to buy one anyway. Here's why…

The Lexus had to be a better vehicle than the Jeep because my research clearly showed it to be so. The Lexus has full time all wheel drive, a GPS navigation unit (in case he gets lost in the woods), heated leather seats and a kick ass dvd player his friends can watch while they ride in the back seat.

I also found a comparison of the Lexus and the Jeep online at Consumer Reports that backed up my sound logic.

They said that the Lexus scored an 85 of 100 and the Jeep only scored a lowly 60 of 100 points on their evaluation… I'm sure glad I told my friend to get the Lexus, he almost made a stupid mistake!

Your reply does not address my comment. If you refuse to hear the general consensus of the people reading your review (not counting the guy who sells these things, it's obvious where his interests lie) than you just refuse to see that you're not convincing anyone using your current review method. Your review is faulty until you use the ridiculous machine. Now, you could write a review about how useless this machine is because of it's cost and therefore unavailability to the general public, you could comment on the fact that until that issue is addressed this machine will do nothing to improve the human condition and exists solely for the elite and for those who manufacture it to make copious amounts of cash off of it, you could rightfully make those assertions. However, your assertion that the machine doesn't work, or doesn't do what it claims to do, without an empirical test, is faulty. It's bad reasoning. You can't philosophize about this one. It either works, or it doesn't, and the only way you will know that is to test it out, or make a specific study of people yourself that have tested the machine. You can philosophize about it's comparative usefulness to humanity, but not about the mechanics of the thing until you test it.

I'm putting the ROM time machine thread to bed as it's taking up too much of my time, and as I stated before we don't seem to be getting anywhere.

Thank you for all who participated, I appreciate your time and passion on the ROM - I wish you all nothing but success in your health and fitness (all kidding aside, honestly)..

I'll leave you with this final quote from Todd Bublitz at Allexperts.com where he got a response back from Dr. Robert Girandola from USC (remeber the USC study ROM is using as evidence on their website?)

"Hello Todd: The study was NOT a published research study and I would never recommend the ROM for just 4 minutes, as compared to a 30 min aerobic workout. ALL I showed for them was that VERY unfit subjects can increase their aerobic capacity by working 5 days/week on the Rom for 4 min, but these were VERY unfit subjects. - Bob G"

Thank you, and good night…

I think the ROM marketing is unacceptably hyperbolic. But I also think that your writing this review without actually having tried it completely undermines your thesis. I think you and ROM are both kind of right. The machine is geared for unfit old folks. They'll benefit. But if you're an Olympic athlete or hardcore amateur, the machine will not be as effective. If it were, you'd see the machine in NFL gyms and the like. I don't accept ROM's view that there is unreasonable prejudice against a 4 minute workout. Pro athletes will use whatever advantage they can get, and if the ROM provided the high benefit to time ratio that the marketer claims, professionals would have no problem using it.

i did the month trial with the ROM and found it to be very hard on my back and knees. i'm 28 and in decent shape. it's a total scam to charge 15k for what is basically a rowing machine and a stair climber rolled into one. and one that i think is very prone to causing injury to the back and knees.
i've worked out enough to know the difference between good sore and bad sore. this for me caused way too much bad sore.
but, as i'm curious, rich and lazy, i thought i'd give it a shot for a month (which cost $1,500). for 15k, i guess a probably could find a personal trainer for the rest of my life!
i hope this disuades some of you from wasting $1500 of the 30 day trial.

While I wouldn't hesitate to spend $15,000 on a "purfect" exercise machine, I'm unwilling to line the pockets of effete snobs who overprice their product. There's no way those machines cost anything close to 1/2 $15,000. So, take your machine and STICK IT!

Professional are not using the ROM. this way of training has no way of apply different adaptations to the performer. no professional would ever use this because it only serves one purpose. MOVING which athletes do anyway. The ROM is a way for fat old lazy people to do a little stretching, pushing and pulling (((in a freaking seated position))) the same position people spend most of their day in. if these people grabbed a box and sat on the toilet and did squat presses with the box.they would get the same benefit. its called Moving. but as a professional i would never recommend that someone base their workout on any type of device that fixes you.they should do all sorts of things to get in shape. not buy some gimic. remember the electric ab belts. they were based on some good ideas but flawed application also. if you look at the first few studies that are not based on the ROM. they all say that exercise improves performance. thats all. and thats all any one should take from the ROM. if the ROM claimed that if would take someone that has limited mobility and extremely out of shape and give the the ability to get around a little easier then they would have valid claim. But not that 4 minutes can replace an hour in the gym a week. if that man that did 4 minutes went to the gym one hour a week he houls have exercised for 20 hours not 4 in 5 months.

Work hard and move.
Go out and move. watch some episodes of Biggest Loser if you need some ideas. Go Out side and have fun no one said you had to go to the gym.

"As long as there are experts in any branch of knowledge, the truth has not as yet been established. As soon as the final truth has been established about anything, experts disappear, not needed anymore, because things that everybody believes in do no longer have need of experts. Who questions round Earth any longer or that the sun is at the center of our solar system? Plenty of experts about these matters in times past.

Respectfully, Alf Temme, ROM Manufacturer"

Alf, there are still plenty of astronomers, physicists, etc who have an even greater understanding of that science than ever before. It is exactly that type of commentary and reasoning that make the ROM product seem dubious.

I can agree that maybe this post shouldn't have been titled "Review", but the points it brings up are valid.

The manufacturer makes some astounding claims about this machine. However, as this article points out, there is not much proof to back these claims up.

I'm sure the rom can give you a decent workout, and of course doing some exercise is better than doing none. People using this machine are interested in the 4 minute aspect, thus, it's likely that they didn't do any exercise before using it. So, yeah, they see results. But they would have seen results from 4 minutes of walking, jogging, etc.

The product's websiteS read like your garden variety internet sales pitch pseudo-spam sites for a miracle product. Amazing claims, near zero documented evidence and a $15,000 price tag. You better be ready for "reviews" like this.

I agree with administration here, I dont have to stick my wiener in the fire to know that its gonna burn me! The ROM is a $15,000 rowing machine that looks as ridiculous as the claims made by their website sound…. You would have to be extremely rich or extremely stupid to buy a machine like this, but my suspicion is that most of ROM's customers are both…. $15,000??? Who are we really kidding here?? This is nothing more than a time machine, or for those of you who bought this junk, a nice scam to lay on the naive few who believe. David N. Phoenix , Arizona Oh yea what is this expert conspiracy theory you're trying to cook up? Experts are experts because they've studied a specific field more than most and in most cases they've reaffirmed their school gained knowledge through real life application. They don't know everything, they just know more than most people. Yes that means you ROM.

I don't understand the reluctance to just try the machine. Pride, or arrogance?

I was just curious about the machine. I saw the ad in a farm magazine and got to this site by googling. It's out of my price range, but I wanted to see some opinions about it since it was so different. The thread was interesting.

I think syd was right. You're dancing around the issue here. Your claims are just as bad as the ROM claims. In fact, this whole blog is dreadfully ironic. And the random jeep vs lexus thing? What the hell was that about? If that's your attempt at trying to draw a comparison, you should repeat HS English. I hope anyone who reads this page comes to the conclusion that, "Hey this ROM thing probably doesn't work, but this website didn't help me reach that conclusion at all and I just wasted over 4 mins…damn."

Bret,

Today I received 9 updates on your blog about our ROM machine. It seems then that this pesky subject had at least 9 lives left in it after you did try put it to bed forever: September 26, 2007 admin:
“I'm putting the ROM time machine thread to bed as it's taking up too much of my time, and as I stated before we don't seem to be getting anywhere.”

I will respond to each of the 9 posts that have a question for which I have an answer or where the blogger can benefit from knowledge I have gained from 18 years of manufacturing and selling the ROM machine. I am completely at peace with the knowledge that most of the diehard skeptics will take anything that I contribute with a grain of salt and some of them will take it with a jumbo cattle salt lickstone. The only thing that will turn them from complete skeptics to instant converts is a 4 minute workout on the ROM (either upper body or lower body ROM workout will do the trick). I am also comfortable with the knowledge that any blogger that has any sort of positive comments is suspected to be a “plant”. I am surprised at your honesty of posting the positive comments at all, or should I suspect that you make a selection and do not post the really positive ones? Have a look at the short 6 minute streaming video on the ROM at www.ROMvideo.com . And here is an offer to you, come to our factory showroom all expenses paid, flight, two nights hotel, meals, try the ROM and get a tour of our 80,000 square feet factory. You will then witness first hand why we think that a $550,000 laser machine (to cut the steel plates for our ROM) and an automatic $220,000 CNC pipe bending machine are absolute bargains even though they together have no more than $55,000 raw materials and parts in them. You will also understand why our lesser than rich customers find it a bargain as well. Tell me when you would like to come and I will send you the tickets. Of course we again have the problem that your opinion after your visit will be suspect as having been “paid for” by the manufacturer. Oh well.

The reasons for both of your laments in your September 26, 2007 posting are easy to explain:
“I'm putting the ROM time machine thread to bed as it's taking up too much of my time, and as I stated before we don't seem to be getting anywhere.”
If you were the owner of a ROM machine you would save a lot of time to work on this blog. You would also be getting somewhere in a hurry by astounding some of the diehard skeptics with your new insights. Of course you would be seen as a turncoat and a “plant” planted by me no doubt. You would gain TIME that you could devote to learning to understand why the ROM is the least expensive form of exercise despite its oft maligned high price. You don’t seem to be getting anywhere because you are refusing to come down from your ivory tower to join the former “experts” that have come down from their lofty places and have joined the ranks of the lowly ROM turncoat converts.

Your blog site certainly is the most fun of any of the blogs that are out there on the ROM. Both sides of the argument are represented well with the occasional exception of the writers that seem to barely be able to recruit 3 brain cells into their attempts at reasoning..

And thanks for your having started to read on my tax reform proposal. Hope you had some more time to read some more. My tax reform proposal is just as hard to believe and understand as a 4 minute workout ROM machine is, but it is also just as excellent. For more out of the ordinary insights of mine you can have a look at my www.OneManThinktank.com . Besides the ROM, I find my my UniversalDemandLaw and my Tax proposal my best achievements so far.

Onward to my responses to the additional 9 posts that I was made aware of by you today. I actually do not have time to do this blogging either but it is quite educational for me to address mental blocks that people have with the ROM. It helps me with marketing, because even after 18 years of manufacturing the ROM machine I seem to encounter new questions and critiques all the time.

Thanks, and happy blogging.

Alf Temme
ROM Manufacturer
=============

One thing I left out purely because of how silly I felt even taking this machine into consideration is that I have experienced the ROM for myself recently. I was turned on to a small what I thought to be asian natural medicine place of some kind here in Scottsdale . This place also played host to other scam like services such as an "HGH machine" (body vibrator), and ionic foot detoxification (total scam), and a whole bunch of jade items that are said to bring chi energy. This little place charges $10.00 to use the ROM machine for up to 8 minutes. I had to try it because I thought ten bucks for only eight minutes, it must be something special. Right?? Wrong. I tried it for one week because a good friend of mine was already driving to this place for these stupid foot detox treatments that I later read to be total b.s. The ROM gave my arms a decent little workout but in the end it was nothing compared to my regular one and a half to two hours in the gym a day. I was not impressed at all and was a little embarrassed . The whole more muscles used equals more oxygen intake equals the equivalent of much more cardio than you're actually doing is absolutely silly and feels nothing like the cardio I am used to. The little stair climber added on to the rear of the machine is just that. What else can I say? Alf, the only reason you spent the money on these expensive machines you are bragging about is because you are skilled at the art of persuasion and you've created a super high priced mystery machine that intrigues the human mind enough to make a purchase that anyone would regret, there for you can afford this equipment. Thanks for all your entertaining jaw music though , you really know how to make me laugh…. David N. Phoenix , AZ. I would put my full name on my post but the fact is , the whole cult like ora that you ROM people put off gives me the creeps.

The slam dunk that this machine is a rip-off is the claim that: "in 4 minutes you will pump the same amount of oxygen as working within your target heart rate zone for 20 or 30 minutes". Someone needs to explain to me how you intake the same amount of oxygen in 4 minutes as in 30 minutes under any circumstances. And of course it's always suspect when people use the terms "perfect", "absolute", "always" and "never". If $15,000 doesn't mean much to you, buy it. Otherwise, get real.

May I ask if you have ever commented on the isokinetic equipment called the Mini-Gym?

Have you ever commented on the efficacy of the form of excercise called "rebouding" or "reboundology" using a trampolean?